Curse

Arduin · Apr 24, 2009, 01:21 PM // 13:21

So, killing raptors over and over to acquire Birthday Cupcakes is called grind.

Yet, doing missions I've already done before to acquire Coins for Sweet Stuff over and over on different toons isn't called grind? Because the missions changes daily?

Your logic is flawed.

-----

My view on grind: actions you have to do more than once, to be able to play a certain aspect of PvE. This includes the 10.000 Faction limit in Factions, and the Sunspear Title limit in Nightfall.

The rest of the title tracks/farms/whatever are optional in my opinion. I am very much able to complete EotN without maxing my Title Tracks. Sure it's easier, but it isn't required.

Shuuda · Apr 24, 2009, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Funny; the only people who will actually need those bags in the first place are the grinding farmers... and they're complaining about grind.

FoxBat · Apr 24, 2009, 01:37 PM // 13:37

The fact that you can do each quest once per character (when the coins can transfer) feels grindy. Doing a new thing once every day, great. Doing it 7 to 10 times, not so much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Funny; the only people who will actually need those bags in the first place are the grinding farmers....

While I'm sure there are plenty of farmers whining now, this affects many others too. For example, armor and equip swaps consume a ton of inv space when you want to be "pvp-ready" - a 20-slot gear bag would be a godsend.

Tullzinski · Apr 24, 2009, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Funny; the only people who will actually need those bags in the first place are the grinding farmers... and they're complaining about grind.

There is a Battle portion for getting coins also. Would like to hear from GvG/PvP guys if this zaishen quest is something they normally would do anyway or if it is something they have to revisit some part of GvG/PvP they have not done for awhile and will revisit to get these items.

zwei2stein · Apr 24, 2009, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Funny; the only people who will actually need those bags in the first place are the grinding farmers... and they're complaining about grind.

You assume too much.

Even collectors stuff and 1k armors eat inventory space

Shuuda · Apr 24, 2009, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

You assume too much.

Even collectors stuff and 1k armors eat inventory space

Not nearly enough.

Cacheelma · Apr 24, 2009, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Clinton

I know that many, many people are calling the zaieshen challenges grind - but they are wrong and i'm writting this post to clarify why.

Grinding is the process of repetitively doing the same action over and over before you have access to more content within the game. It is not, as so many people seem to think - comitment. Raptor farming is grind. Its doing the same thing constantly for money or items, which are exchanged for in-game content. Keg farming is the same. Certain titles involve grind. Aliiance titles used to be big on this. Constantly doing FFF was grind. Doing AB over and over was also grindy, despite the change of battlegrounds and flexibility in useable builds. But other than this, really, there is not much grind in guild wars.

Zaishen challenges are not grind. People see that it will take a while before they get the 20 slot bag and start screaming about it. News flash, no. Its not grind. The challenges are varied and take you to completely different missions every time you do them. You can do any three of them and they span the four corners of the guildwars universe. Casual pve, high-end pve, casual pvp and high end pvp. Most importantly though, they change EVERY DAY. There is no repititious action here, there is just the option of playing various aspects of the game for a reward each day.

Yes, it will take a while to get your 20 slot bag, and you need to be somewhat commited to getting it. But dont for a second make out that guildwars has turned into a grindfest that has abandoned its casual players - it hasnt. You are being asked to simply play the game and eventually you'll get a bag. If thats too much for you, I would think about reassessing what enjoyment you get from guild wars.

Thankyou.
/rant

By your definition, WoW is completely grind-free.

Imaginos · Apr 24, 2009, 02:29 PM // 14:29

to the OP....you're wrong it's a grind and one that will take over 4 real world months to get a single 20 slot bag on a single character.

Lets take your definition of grind and pare it down a bit..

Quote:

Grinding is the process of repetitively doing the same action over and over before you have access to more content within the game.

and...

Quote:

Zaishen challenges are not grind. People see that it will take a while before they get the 20 slot bag and start screaming about it. News flash, no. Its not grind. The challenges are varied and take you to completely different missions every time you do them.

3 different types of zaishen things to do. Missions, Bounty Hunt and PvP.

PvP is out for anyone who dislikes it.
Bounties are out for most people who just play through the normal content as they can't handle Elite Areas.

So that leaves missions to do.

Now lets talk about your definition of grind. Repeating a process over and over....the missions are different each day, the bounties too most likely, however you are doing missions/bounties over and over every day to "farm" your zcoins. Thus it is a grind. Grinds take time. 150 days doing just missions is a long time and thus a grind.

They should rename the game Grindwars. :P

Rocky Raccoon · Apr 24, 2009, 02:59 PM // 14:59

I don't mind grind, it's almost like meditation, after a while you go into to an Alpha state and all is good.

Miss Puddles · Apr 24, 2009, 03:10 PM // 15:10

While it may be gind-esque, it still gives a bit more motivation to do some of the areas/missions that no one does much anymore or has moved on from in favor of...well...more grind.
I'm just satisfied that I don't have to wait for events to work on finishing out Party Animal.

Fitz Rinley · Apr 24, 2009, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Clinton

I know that many, many people are calling the zaieshen challenges grind - but they are wrong and i'm writting this post to clarify why.

Guild Wars ceased being about anything except grind 2 years ago. And yes, constantly re-entering the same things (especially things you detest, and as much for the attitude of the contenders as for the scenario) is grind.

There is a point to minimizing risk and maximizing opportunity/gain. Those who do so, like myself, are refered to as min-maxers. However, when that becomes nearly the only point to the game then the gaming part is lost. I would like to get Obsidian armors for a few of my characters. In three and a half years of play I have gotten One ecto and a score of shards. I am constantly being told how you have to bring this class, and this build or that class and that build, and X consets or pay 850g to person with consets, and then you do exactly this, and you don't finish, and this speed clear gets so many shards it's great. We will see the same thing with opening the storage set.

The original idea seemed to be to create a game where each class could be played at anytime, anywhere, by anyone and get the job done. Each time something is created that allows people to be more efficient and effective, with the characters of their choice, the effect is nerfed. Currently if you are not running an Assassin or Monk, then the majority of the game is unprofitable. If you are running any of several cryer or like damage builds, you can still VSF - provided someone has lots of liquor for the 'Sin.

The idea of being able to get together as a group of friends, using any class combination, and go do the profitable stuff in a reasonable amount of time, has been nerfed at every opportunity. The remaining few options for getting something done then are made harder, so that it becomes a grind fest for a particular few chosen classes with a few chosen skills.

Yes, GW is and has bee for some time, a game principally about grind.

Oh! The irony that Bill Clinton would deny it...

Tullzinski · Apr 24, 2009, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Oh! The irony that Bill Clinton would deny it..

I did not have grindual relations with that game Miss Guild Wars!!!!

kazjun · Apr 24, 2009, 03:34 PM // 15:34

It's not grind? Oh, thank you so much for pointing that out to me. Blood washes blood is obviously something I've never done across all my characters and that I didn't repeat over and over to fill books to max my titles. And any other mission they put in, why, I must have missed them when I finished all four campaigns with all my characters and prot and guardian for my main. It must obviously be new and special just cause the zaishen guys say so. Repeating a few times is one thing, but over 100 missions for ONE pack?

If you don't mind doing it, then good for you, but don't pretend it's something it isnt. Me, I'm done with this. Small packs for everyone. If I eventually get enough from elite missions for a large, I'll get one for my main to stuff his HoM armour into then never have to to look at it again.

Falling Petal · Apr 24, 2009, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Posting the same complaints over and over on here is grinding too but people still do it

.

Seriously though, the fundamental difference between this and other reasons to repeat content (e.g. titles) is that for the most part with this everybody is doing the same focused thing at the same time. When you are grinding a particular title, sure other people are doing it at that moment - but probably not by doing exactly the same thing in the same place as you.

The entire point of this is to focus/herd the player base to a small number of places each day. This means that people that like playing with other people (e.g. me) will have more people to party up with. If you don't like playing the game and also don't like other people then this is indeed pure grind for you. Nevermind, if the bags are tradable(?) then you can just buy them and go back to not playing the game and everyone is happy

.

Kushiels_Scion · Apr 24, 2009, 04:30 PM // 16:30

I don't mind doing the stuff for new rewards, because I understand it is a means to get more people focused on doing the same thing and playing together (though, even that is hard to do when you play sporadicaly as I and have a very in active guild) but, 7500 copper coins which is the equivalent worth of 15zkeys... is ridiculous for a bag that can only hold 20 items.... I have 3 armor sets on my warrior (my rit has even more with farming and such) and 5-7 weapons. 20 slots isn't a whole love when it comes to storing armor and weapons (frankly I was hoping for something like the pvp weapon and armor creation screens, where instead of creating things, you just have your weapons sitting in a weapon 'storage' for that character and armor in their armor storage. but I know that wasn't going to happen. )

Still, some people are bent out of shape more than they should be. Its a game, at least GW continues to offer us new things. They could just leave us hanging until GW2 but they don't.

Tullzinski · Apr 24, 2009, 04:32 PM // 16:32

IMO purpose of this grind seem to be delaying the acquistion of the largest packs until some revenue has been generated and ANET can upgrade systems to accomadate the largest packs.

Rice · Apr 24, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushiels_Scion

I call it grind. I don't mind doing the new stuff for new rewards, but, 7500 copper coins which is the equivalent worth of 15zkeys... is RIDICULOUS for a bag that can only hold 20 items.... I have 3 armor sets (not mentioning helms) and 5-7 weapons just for my warrior. New storage was suppose to be a good update, not an expensive as hell-take-forever-to-get update. Its ridiculous. I don't pvp, i am not in a very active guild because I play periodically so, chances of getting a group in places like The Deep for kanaxai (which was the 2nd zaishen quest) is slim to none.

I like the concept of these new rewards, but the prices for them compared to what they offer is extreme. They better change the ratio of converting coins or something otherwise i'm just not gonna bother. Its not worth it for only 20 slots (3 armors = 12 slots taken up, add in 4 helms, thas 16 and not even enough room for weapons. This is still going to leave my storage full of character armors and weapons.)

bah...

appreciate the Anets thought though of giving us more room, but it doesn't amount to a whole lot if it will take a month or more for one bag.

1) Stop QQing
2) If you have that much armor you should really make a character dedicated to hold your armor. Or you should stop buying armor.
3) Start PVPing since pvp char can be deleted and u can farm pvp quest unlimited amount of time.

Rocky Raccoon · Apr 24, 2009, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushiels_Scion

character armors and weapons.)appreciate the Anets thought though of giving us more room, but it doesn't amount to a whole lot if it will take a month or more for one bag.

Maybe they are trying to keep people busy until GW2 and what's wrong with a challenge to earn them.

Kushiels_Scion · Apr 24, 2009, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rice

1) Stop QQing
2) If you have that much armor you should really make a character dedicated to hold your armor. Or you should stop buying armor.
3) Start PVPing since pvp char can be deleted and u can farm pvp quest unlimited amount of time.

I have a character dedicated to holding miscelaneous holliday and otherwise collector items, one for weapons and one for inscriptions ect. The latter 2 are more or less full. The point of additional storage (weapon and armor) is so characters can carry them with them. I don't even remember half the stuff I have, probably should sell stuff for cheaps.. Rambling now..

meh, i just think it is quite an absurd price for 20 slots, but thats me. People are going to start trading zkeys for bags here soon probably.

T1Cybernetic · Apr 24, 2009, 04:57 PM // 16:57

I am loving the new equipment bags but it will take a very long time to get the 20 slot ones and i really can not see me doing the quests to gain the bad

even if i do need it, i will probably just buy a new character slot